Why I think my friends should have babies

[archerships]

Patri recently posted a series of trollish posts, in which he expressed his desire to see people he liked have babies.

I too share Patri’s desire to see more friends reproduce. It makes me sad that the particular combination of genes and nurture that make up some of my favorite people will disappear when they die. I like and admire my friends, and I’d like to see more people like them in the world. Many traits have a strong genetic influence, so if they reproduce, there’s a high likelihood that the traits I like will be passed onto their children. And I think most of my friends would be good parents, and will provide their kids with a rich, supportive environment. So regardless of whether good genes or a good environment has the biggest influence on child development, their kids would enjoy both.

And I think that having kids will make most of them happier than they would’ve been otherwise. In 1976, Newsday asked a random sample of people, “If you had to do it over again, would you or would you not have children?” According to the survey, 5% of men and 9% of women (13% of those 65+) who did have kids regretted it. A 2003 Gallup poll found that two-thirds of those over 40 who didn’t have kids regretted it.

So I think having kids will not only make me happier, I think that most of them will be happier too.

On the other hand, unlike Patri, I don’t find it very difficult to imagine reasons for not parenting other than: a) self-loathing, b) hedonistic irresponsibility.

Kids are costly in terms of time and money. Moreover, they completely depend on you for food and shelter for 18 years (and often financially for several years after that). If you have a mission that doesn’t pay particularly well (such as say, sculpture), then you may not be willing to have a child, and risk not being able to provide. Sleeping in your car while you build your clientele may work for an artist–it’s not fair to subject such hardship to a child.

Many people had terrible parents as children. For example, a friend of mine didn’t think that she would survive childhood. Her biological father left the family and provided little support. Her biological mother was a drug and alcohol abuser. For the most part, she was raised by her grandparents, who were also alcoholics. She remembers wild, drunken rides in the back of her grandparents car, and fear that she wouldn’t make it home alive.

My friend is smart, funny, beautiful, and compassionate. Miraculously, she survived to adulthood without exhibiting many of the maladaptive traits of her parents. However, she doesn’t want to have children, preferring instead to devote her time to her work as a counselor. I don’t know if she fears that her kids would inherit the bad traits of her parents (as her sister and brother have), but it doesn’t seem irrational to me if she simply wants to avoid the risk. (Though I would still encourage her to have children.)

But let’s assume that someone simply doesn’t want to have kids because it would cramp their nightlife. The word “responsible” implies someone to whom one is responsible. But when it comes to how one spends one’s life, to whom are you responsible, other than yourself and the people with whom you voluntarily enter agreements?

And as for being hedonistic, what’s wrong with that? It seems to me a reasonable goal to extract as much pleasure out of life as possible. Now, I happen to think most people will find greater satisfaction in pursing a long term project, such as raising a child, than they will pursuing short term pleasures such as drinking and carousing. But that’s a difference of means, not ends–the end is still maximizing area under the lifetime hedonistic curve.

So, my thanks to those of you who’ve had kids. I think you’re making the world a better place. And to those who don’t plan to have kids, I hope you change your mind someday. :)

(And, for the record, I don’t have kids now, but plan to have them.)

Original: craschworks - comments

Comments

[azalynn.livejournal.com]

I always find myself going o_0 upon coming across people without uteruses urging others to have children. Personally pregnancy is one of the primary reasons I have deemed myself an evolutionary dead end...there's a non-trivial risk of serious bodily injury or even death from pregnancy and birth. Plus it just sounds horribly unpleasant, painful, and invasive....I mean, you can't exactly have much in the way of personal space when someone is living rent-free in your abdominal cavity for several months...

All that said even if artificial wombs existed I would still more than likely not want children. I have other ways I would rather spend my time (and I don't feel obligated to list them for anyone). Now if you figure in artificial wombs + drastically extended lifespan, maybe then, but for now I will stick to my happily childfree ways.

[crasch.livejournal.com]

Children are hard on women's bodies, no doubt. Another rational reason not to have them.

I think we'll have artificial wombs eventually, although I suspect that they will be in use only briefly before we start making robot "children".

[kindofstrange.livejournal.com]

Once I can grow a kid in an amniotic vat, I'm there.

Until then, fuck that shit. I worked with four women at Sears who were either pregnant or had recently given birth around the same time. Their constant stories about ripping, mucus plugs, the inability to maintain bladder control long after it was over, etc have all left a pretty decent mark.

I think I may be best suited for adopting a yard ape, if I ever get that urge. Which I'm not sure that I ever will. I'm a pretty selfish person and love being able to drop everything if/when I need to for adventure.

[azalynn.livejournal.com]

This, pretty much all of it. If I really felt a burning need to perform memetic transmission to the next generation I would probably adopt. It's not like there's a shortage of kids in need of homes. For now I will stick to cats. :P

[jane]

I totally agree with you. It easy to urge people to have kids if you don't actually have to go through the pregnancy.

Not only are there massive and irreversible physical changes (and pain) there's also hormonal and brain chemistry changes that happen during pregnancy. I have so many friends who've became a completely different person after giving birth. That's their choice, but it's totally not for me.

Mostly though, I just don't like kids. They're loud and chaotic and require too much of my attention. I like my life the way it is and am absolutely not ok with the complete upset and disruption that having a kid brings.

Six years ago, I was responsible and got my tubes tied. Haven't regretted it once since.

[cramer.livejournal.com]

(w.r.t. living in your car) I'll add... it's also not legal.

Children are a lot of work. But there are rewards for that work. Usually.

I'm 37. I don't have any regrets about not having any kids. One could argue I regret not having a family -- wife, string of ex-wives, dog, 2.3 children, etc. And sometimes I would agree :-) But I enjoy my "world without people" -- in fact, it's 1:52am and I'm at my desk at work; in a completely empty 3 story office building.

[crasch.livejournal.com]

Yep, living in your car is generally illegal, though in my experience, as long as you're discrete, it's rarely enforced.

There are definitely advantages to remaining single, I agree. I don't regret not having children yet, though I think I would if I never have them.

[olegvolk.livejournal.com]

Having kids requires a willing accomplice whom you can stand for a lifetime. A tall order.

[crasch.livejournal.com]

Yes, finding a suitable partner can be difficult.

[ernunnos.livejournal.com]

"You'll be happier, you irresponsible hedonist!" is not only neatly self-refuting, but quite revealing.

[madbard.livejournal.com]

Chris, I have no doubt that your scientific and mathematical knowledge soars above my own by several orders of magnitude. So why is it that every survey you mention is like a beginner's-level exercise in Manipulative Pseudoscience Detection?

[crasch.livejournal.com]

Every survey? Surely I've posted something you've agreed with in the past.

In any case, I assume that my readers are basically intelligent skeptics, who are capable of evaluating evidence for themselves. Just because I post something doesn't mean I wholly agree with the results or think that the survey or experiments were done with full scientific rigor. I assume that everyone who reads me is fully aware that survey results can change a lot depending on how the survey questions are worded, the order in which the questions appear, the sampling method, etc.

Is there better survey data on this issue? Perhaps. Am I going to do a literature review to try to find it? Unless it's something that's in my core areas of interest (cryonics, seasteading), probably not.

If you find a better survey, feel free to post it, and I'll post it to my blog.

[madbard.livejournal.com]

I don't think subjects like this can be scientifically surveyed at all. The more controversial or emotionally weighty a topic, the more confounding factors and the more hopelessly messy the data. I think your anecdotal observations, considered carefully, are as or more valuable as this kind of report.

I'm very interested in the one question they didn't ask - how many parents wish they weren't parents - but know that there's not a snowball's chance in hell in getting an honest self-report on that subject.

[crasch.livejournal.com]

According to the Newsday survey, of those who had kids, 5% of the men and 9% of women said they would not have children if they had to do it over again.

[madbard.livejournal.com]

It takes rare gumption to wish your children hadn't been born, and it's worth remembering that the majority of Americans believe a supernatural being is listening to their survey answer, ready to condemn them to hell as needed. We thus can safely assume actual numbers are higher. But by how much? Impossible to guess.

[herbaliser.livejournal.com]

I have a few articles...

[crasch.livejournal.com]

Thanks! I posted the first article.

[madbard.livejournal.com]

I'm sure a study can be concocted that can supposedly validate any point of view on this issue. This debate is beyond the ken of rigorous examination.

[vyus.livejournal.com]

hey now... the ultimate experiment is already ongoing.

because we keep reproducing for some gosh darn reason :)

i really hope it isn't for tax deductions.