What does "successful" mean to you?
2003-05-14 11:24 am![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
archershipsWhen women describe the kind of man they would like to meet, they often use the term "successful". As in "I'd like to find a man who is smart, witty, successful, and buff...."
The term seems to be shorthand for "paid higher than average" and/or has a high status job (ceo, doctor, professor, high-level manager). Is this accurate?
If so, how much money would it take for you to regard a man as "successful"? If successful means something different to you, how do you define it? Feel free to respond anonymously, as I don't log IP addresses.
The term seems to be shorthand for "paid higher than average" and/or has a high status job (ceo, doctor, professor, high-level manager). Is this accurate?
If so, how much money would it take for you to regard a man as "successful"? If successful means something different to you, how do you define it? Feel free to respond anonymously, as I don't log IP addresses.
no subject
Date: 2003-05-14 08:39 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2003-05-14 08:40 am (UTC)To me, it means something more like "genuinely happy" - with life, work, whatever.
Hell, this is easy.
Date: 2003-05-14 08:54 am (UTC)Re: Hell, this is easy.
Date: 2003-05-14 10:32 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2003-05-14 08:55 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2003-05-14 02:50 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2003-05-14 07:59 pm (UTC)Re:
Date: 2003-05-14 08:01 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2003-05-14 08:57 am (UTC)Heh, I'm in a field that pays REALLY low - so someone starts looking successful to me at $30-35K. :)
no subject
Date: 2003-05-14 09:00 am (UTC)To me, someone who is successful is someone who has their life together on all fronts. A strong career path, though that wouldn't necessarily be high-paying. Someone who knows how to manage their money is more important than someone who makes a lot of it. Someone who knows what makes them happy and has taken steps to get there, whether that be with education, a job, a hobby or outside interest, whatever. Also, someone who has at least an idea of what they want in the future, whether it's the traditional marriage-kids-house-career thing or not. I need to know that I fit into their vision of the future and vice-versa.
I won't lie, money is somewhat important. When I was 18 I dated a guy who was so broke I constantly had to pay for all our dates. I was *not* impressed. And I would stay away from someone who couldn't hold down a job. But I would have no problems dating someone who is, for example, a teacher or a police officer, professions that don't exactly pay high salaries, but they are nevertheless career-track jobs.
no subject
Date: 2003-05-14 12:38 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2003-05-14 09:22 am (UTC)Note the lack of dollar figures here. :) I've never understood rating people by education attained or money earned. I do attach a lot of value to intelligence but there are lots of different ways to manifest that quality.
no subject
Date: 2003-05-14 09:26 am (UTC)Not to me, though I admit my point of view may not be the average one. To me, successful is the opposite of that guy (or girl) you knew who could have done a lot but just didn't, stayed at home too much or didn't follow his/her dreams, or basically just didn't take opportunities. They don't have to be rich or powerful - just really attempting something, and living rather than watching life go by.
My Interpretation
Date: 2003-05-14 09:36 am (UTC)1. Opposite of unsuccessful, aka "a loser";
2. Multiple implications, including but not limited to: maintains a job he/she enjoys, makes a profit at said job, can consistantly sustain themselves financially (everyone needs some help sometime).
Does not imply: being wealthy, maintaining a high status job.
no subject
Date: 2003-05-14 09:57 am (UTC)ahem. sorry. i'll get off the beentheredonethat soapbox. :)
responsible and happy with what they're doing. if that's toeing the counter at McD's, but they love what they do and can take care of their responsibilities, that's good enough for me.
no subject
Date: 2003-05-14 10:07 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2003-05-14 10:14 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2003-05-14 10:45 am (UTC)Re: caveats
Date: 2003-05-22 10:40 pm (UTC)wealthy, healthy, witty and trustworthy
A wealthy man can afford to support more children, plain and simple. True, a few men have more children than they can afford. They fall into two catagories,
love 'em and leave 'em or religious fanatics. Granny tells you to avoid the love 'em and leave 'em types because they don't maximize a woman's reproductive sucess, since a single parent has fewer resources to raise children with. The religious types, or those supported by a generous welfare state are ok, but not ideal, since the burden of raising the children is still on the female, though she may not have to worry about money as much.
As for healthy men, grannie wants her girls to marry them because she wants healthy grandkids. More surviving, strapping grandkids mean more great-grand kids and so on.
Granny tells her girls to look for smart men, because if they aren't wealthy yet, they might be smart enough to become so in the future. Intelligence and wealth are often corrolated. Plus smart grandsons manage to snag the most fertile wives, producing more of those great-grand babies.
Finally, Granny warns her girls to make sure the men
they agree to have sex with for the rest of their lives
are trustworthy. She doesn't want any resources that could be going to her grandchildren to go to some other, non-related hussy.
Now, there are many wonderful men for girls to marry who would be exceptions to grannie's wise advice, but this advice has lasted for so many centuries because it makes biological sense.
no subject
Date: 2003-05-14 10:56 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2003-05-14 02:49 pm (UTC)To me, it means doing what you want more of the time than not.
Bring. It.
no subject
Date: 2003-05-14 04:34 pm (UTC)successful
\Suc*cess"ful\, a. Resulting in success; assuring, or promotive of, success; accomplishing what was proposed; having the desired effect; hence, prosperous; fortunate; happy; as, a successful use of medicine; a successful experiment; a successful enterprise.
Technically, a successful person (are we being gender specific for a reason here?) is someone who makes gobs of money and then spends gobs of money to be all comfy, while still mantaining said gobs of fundage for merriment at future dates. Go Them!
Prosperous doesn't have to have an ATM or a President attached though. To me, a prosperous person is someone who enjoys their life to it's fullest. Someone who sees opportunities and seizes them, to make their life (and their loved ones lives) happier. That is a successful person. (and yes, I am disregarding the parts in the definition that hints at it being an "end" result, I prefer to think of success as an ongoing project.)
no subject
Date: 2003-05-14 08:23 pm (UTC)Interesting. I have another viewpoint.
Date: 2003-05-14 10:21 pm (UTC)I don't go looking for it on purpose, but it seems that everyone I get involved with these days is "successful" in the sense of your original post.
Ex-wife: fairly successful attorney (yeah, I know) at middlin' firms.
Ex-girlfriend: very successful attorney at a top firm.
Current girlfriend: engineering professor at a top school in her field.
I also recently saw an article on "trophy husbands". It cited that something like 30% of women now make more than their husbands, but the article was specifically about the stay-at-home husbands of high powered female executives raising the kids and taking care of the house. I don't really ever want to do that.
Anyway. I have never gone looking for this. It's not entirely comfortable to be with someone who has a higher salary, more education and more accomplished career than I do; that's still not really "accepted" and I have discussed how society views this with each of these women.
In my marriage, we ended up splitting our finances. As it turned out, I spent less than she did, and am much better off financially now without her despite carrying the mortgage by myself.
With my girlfriend, I always go Dutch, that is, just trade off who pays and try to keep it roughly even.
With the posh lawyer ex-g/f, who lives very high ($400K house, Audi A4 conv, $100 restaurant meals, etc.), it was very difficult. I really couldn't keep up without going into debt, which I hate, and that was an issue in our relationship.
But I admit that in some ways I enjoy it, too. I like being proud of my SO not just for her looks and personality, but also for her career success. That doesn't have much to do with financial success, but the latter does kinda go with the territory.
no subject
Date: 2003-05-14 11:46 pm (UTC)i can't comment on what wanting a successful man means. i got married way too young to know what i wanted.
but i don't think (if i were suddenly faced with the choice) that i would be seeking a "successful" man. nah, not that i would want an extra pet to take care of, but i think i would be more interested in an "interesting" man.
i don't think "interesting" appears at the top of many women's lists. see, you're safe posting personal stuff -- they don't care if you're dull as long as you can foot the bill.
yuck.
no subject
Date: 2003-05-14 06:56 pm (UTC)I prefer brilliant slightly problem solving obsessed men who are somewhat socially maladjusted.
But then, I'm looking less for a caretaker/child supporter than a companion/lover.
If I were looking for the former, "successful" would mean posessing a niche of comparative power, an income capable of supporting children and myself, a personality adverse to abuse and the physical prowess to defend my children/me if the need would arise.
Pretty much, successful would represent a bundle of goods/traits I felt would bolster my chances and my offsprings' chances of survival.
I think "successful" when generally used in this context refers to a man living a lifestyle which a women values some multiple greater than her own. That multiple is influenced by her current conditions and prospects and probably her level of risk aversion.
no subject
Date: 2003-05-15 02:02 am (UTC)Symmetry
The symmetry of your body is more important according
to recent scientific findings.
Re: Symmetry
Date: 2003-05-15 10:13 pm (UTC)the ideal waist to hip ratio for men is .9, for women its .7
marilyn monroe and kate moss both have a .7 waist to hip ratio.
but the show also says that the inhereted reproductive urge in men is for young women with curves (curves indicating fertility), women want stable providers to reproduce with.
and that symmetrical faces are attractive through all cultures.
Re: Symmetry
Great! I am glad someone has seen the same show.
So, a man get more responses from personal web
sites by making their picture more symmetrical.
This can be achieved easily with photo editing
programs.
A woman will have a touch job in making this
work because making their body to fit these
ratios takes a more complicated photo editing
operation. A purchase of more expensive
pieces of software might be required.
Re: Symmetry
Date: 2003-05-15 11:44 pm (UTC)Re: Symmetry
Date: 2003-05-15 11:49 pm (UTC)But the corset would show up on the picture. :)
Re: Symmetry
Date: 2003-05-15 11:52 pm (UTC)Re: Symmetry
Date: 2003-05-15 11:55 pm (UTC)If a woman wears a corset, it is not hard from
someone to know, even with clothes on.
no subject
Date: 2003-05-17 08:37 am (UTC)Loved reading the answers & of course have to add my own...
Financially I think it means enough to support himself in the lifestyle he has chosen without being a burden to anyone else and without being headed into deep trouble.
More importantly though, I think successful means having found something to do that means more to him than just making it to the end of the month.
And if he's passionate about something that keeps him living with his mother until he's 40 :>, as long as she's okay with that, he may still be successful (see artist, writer, political activist).
If the life he's chosen is more about what he does than it is about what he makes and how much he can buy with it, he's probably going to be MORE successful... and happier.... and a lot more fun to be around... in the long run.
the best
Date: 2003-05-22 10:47 pm (UTC)Sucessful: wealthy, healthy and wise
What I'll actually end up with: the best combination between wealthy, healthy and wise and all those other things that I really can't do without in a man, like someone who's extremely fond of adventure cusine, has the same life philosophy and a copy of the art of electronics in his bookcase.
Successful Definitions
Date: 2003-05-23 04:00 am (UTC)As it is, however, I'll just repost what I posted to Greendalek's page.
Heh. Personally, I have a different viewpoint than most I've spoken with. I would define "successful", in regard to a man's employment/finances, as earning enough money to pay the bills on time every month, pay for insurance (auto, home/renters, life, medical, dental), have and add to a savings account from every paycheck and have enough fundage left over to play a little (ie: pay for dinner so that the woman he's out with doesn't have to pay for him).
In general, however, I consider "successful" to mean at peace with who and what he is. The last thing I need is a broken or damaged man. Been there, done that. Success implies, in my opinion, that a man has the maturity to deal with life as it comes.
In all honesty, what I seek at this current moment in time is a man who has established himself, including the above. I refuse to rescue a man and I refuse to need rescuing. I've already gone that route and it was too painful.
Sometimes "successful" is simply doing what you must do when it must be done; whether you want to or not.